John Piper - Who literally is.....The Most Agonising Christian Problem.....
......and the sooner Churchianity is rid of people like him the sooner it will become Christianity.
Here below is a copy of what Mr Piper says about the 'assurance of salvation' and I will break it down and disect it in order to reveal his blasphemous errors.
"The most agonizing problem about the assurance of salvation is not the problem of whether the objective facts of Christianity are true (God exists, Christ is God, Christ died for sinners, Christ rose from the dead, Christ saves forever all who believe, etc.). Those facts are the utterly crucial bedrock of our faith. But the really agonizing problem of assurance is whether I personally am saved by those facts. This boils down to whether I have saving faith."
If we are Born Again we are given faith and without that faith, we could not believe - period. We only know that Mr Piper's 'objective facts' are facts because we do believe and that that ability to believe is given to us in the first place. Ephesians 2:8 "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God." Faith and Grace are gifts of God, our faith has got nothing to do with it.
Now here is his first blasphemy: "This boils down to whether I have saving faith." What makes this statement a blasphemy? Well, he says he is a Christian and then he questions whether or not he has 'saving faith' Why does he ask this question? Easy, because he thinks his salvation is down to him and.....wait for it, 'his saving faith' He thinks his faith is saving him and that is the blasphemy of what he is saying. If we are Born Again we automatically have saving faith because it is given to us by The Godhead.
As I write I have received comments from his supporters who actually say Mr Piper isn't saying what he is saying!! How do they work that out? Do they have a problem with basic English, for I am not writing in the intellectual style? Ah yes maybe that's the problem - not enough gobble-de-gook for them, I am not taking them round in ever decreasing circles and still not coming to an understanding of The Truth. I am giving them The Truth, straight and undiluted but it's too simple for them!! Can you believe that? You'd better believe it 'cos that's the The Truth too.
"What makes this agonizing - for many in the history of the church and today - is that there are people who think they have saving faith but don't."
Here we go again, more agonising, how does he cope with all that pain? Oh, to be a martyr in the order of John Piper. Then we get a little demo of his Pharisee's credentials by telling us there are some who think they are saved but they are not? Very dangerous ground indeed. He then quotes a passage of Scripture that applies to him more than it does to those he is talking about!
"For example, in Matthew 7:21-23, Jesus says, (I've requoted this passage in a more accurate translation) "Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.""
Uncannily, he then asks some very appropriate and pertinent questions re-himself without knowing it:
"So the agonizing question for some is: do I really have saving faith? Is my faith real? Am I self-deceived?"
Yes, Mr Piper, you are most definitely deceived.
"Some well-intentioned people try to lessen the problem by making faith a mere decision to affirm certain truths, like the truth: Jesus is God, and he died for my sins. Some also try to assist assurance by denying that any kind of life-change is really necessary to demonstrate the reality of faith. So they find a way to make James 2:17 mean something other than what is seems to mean: "Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead." But these strategies to help assurance backfire.
If these people exist, for I do not know any of them, who has taught them? How have they come to baptism without lifestyle changes - without repentance? Confession of sins comes before baptism - admission of, and admitting our wretchedness comes before baptism - this is basic discipleship! These things don't come after baptism. If these people are baptised without a change of heart - a change that is wholly enabled by God the Father, not the person involved, then they are falsley baptised and it is the fault of the pastor/minister and no one else.
If we are proper converts, yes, we will continue to sin, but all the while acknowledging it is sin. The unconverted carnal mind would not do this, it cannot do it, the carnal mind does not recognise sin as sin and these falsley baptised people will just continue as before, because they're not called and sin is not sin to them. This is not rocket science, it's a basic Christian fundamental, a basic fundamental of conversion.
OK, I will move on to the next little gem in his diatribe:
All these so called ministers/pastors, like Piper, drop clangers sooner or later, I don't even have to speed read through their material first, for I know one will come sooner or later and here we have the first clanger in the misuse of James 2:17. Here he is using this verse to try and prove that someone is saved or not, which is a blasphemy - it's sheer nonsense. James 2:17 is talking about our faith, not Jesus' faith, which we are given when Born Again. Our faith earns us rewards stored in Heaven - nothing else, and only if it is accompanied with works, for our faith without works is dead. Nevertheless, we still have saving faith whether our faith has been exercised or not. Saving faith enables us to believe in the first place, and then on that foundation, we build our faith, but they are two types of faith - one is part of that free gift of salvation and the other one a faith that doesn't exist until we bring it to life with our works - that is, any kind of works that involves risk and trusting in The Lord for its success. Please note, 'works' does not mean worldly liberal reforming do-gooding.
"They deny some Scripture; and even the minimal faith they preserve can be agonized over and doubted by the tormented soul. They don't solve the problem, and they lose truth. And, perhaps worst of all, they sometimes give assurance to people who should not have it.Instead of minimizing the miraculous, deep, transforming nature of faith, and instead of denying that there are necessary life-changes that show the reality of faith, we should tackle the problem of assurance another way."
As I have already said, all this should be dealt with in discipling, and if not dealt with then the candidate is not ready for baptism. He then again refers to the 'assurance of salvation' as a problem. There is no problem to the assurance of salvation, for once Born Again we cannot become unborn again - it's impossible and The Lord would never allow it anyway.
The 'problems' that do arise are caused by those who are baptised by pastors who don't know what they are doing. These supposed converts are people whom The Father is plainly not calling but because people like Piper think conversion is a decision on the part of the convert they end up baptising loads of people who shouldn't be baptised. You know the ones, those who have 'accepted' Jesus Christ as their Saviour. This fallacious 'teaching' says we have a say in our conversion - a nonsense. If you think that, I suggest you read Acts where Saul's conversion is described, and you won't find him saying "Oh Lord I accept you as my Saviour" - Saul/Paul had no say in the matter at all, it was The Father's decision to call him and Jesus Christ actioned it - end of story.
Now for more 24 carrat gobble-de-gook and even bigger blasphemies! Stay with it folks 'cos this wretched individual's Biblical ignorance knows no bounds.
"We should begin by realizing that there is an objective warrant for resting in God's forgiveness of my sins, and there is a subjective warrant for God's forgiveness of my sins. The objective warrant is the finished work of Christ on the cross that "has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified" (Hebrews 10:14). The subjective warrant is our faith which is expressed in "being sanctified."
Warrants!!?? What warrants? The only warrant should be for this blasphemer's arrest and gagging order, so he can't preach any more rubbish, rubbish which puts Believers into the bondage and slavery of his non-gospel. A non-gospel of salvation by process and/or sanctification by progress. Hebrews 10:14 "By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all." We are sanctified "once for all" when we are made Holy and this happens....wait for it.... AT ONCE - instantaneously - immediately, there is no process to it at all. Once Born Again we are made Holy by the indwelling of The Holy Spirit and we cannot get any more Holy than that - it's impossible!! Notice too "By which will we are Sanctified" There is no mention at all here of any process to Sanctification. If an unbelieving spouse is pleased to dwell with their believing husband or wife they are automatically Sanctified, there's no process to it!!
Oh, should we, and does it really? Well would you believe it!? Thankfully no I wouldn't, because it's balderdash. Saving faith is saving faith and it only consists of one part to use his terminology. I will quote Ephesians 2:8 once more "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God." There we have it, Faith and Grace - one part of Faith and one part of Grace. There are no two parts of saving Faith, so now he is telling us porkies, whether he realises it or not.
Saving Faith is just that, Saving Faith, it forms part of our Salvation along with Grace. Without God given saving Faith we could not believe, it wouldn't be possible, we would remain carnally minded and that's it.
Here, very briefly, is the conversion process: The Father calls us and we say "Here am I", we are now disciples. We are then, through the Holy Spirit, convicted of our sinful nature and confess our sins, we admit for the first time that we need forgiveness made possible by Jesus Christ's death and resurrection. Only The Father through The Holy Spirit, working externally, with us can do this. This is not a voluntary act on our part, we have no option but to confess, because He has made us aware for the first time, of those sins. We should now feel our wretchedness, our wretched condition and need for Jesus Christ. We are now repentant in nature rather than rebellious in nature and are ready for baptism. Once baptised and prayed over by a brother, we are now Born Again from above with the indwelling of The Holy Spirit. We are now saved, sanctified and justified through Jesus Christ's sacrifice and resurrection, and don't let any blasphemer tell you otherwise.
"First, faith is a spiritual sight of glory (or beauty) in the Christ of the gospel."
Here he speaks as if there is another Christ or that there might another Christ other than the one who speaks in the Gospel accounts. Then he tells us another mistruth, for Paul clearly states that we see through a glass darkly where the Spiritual world is concerned, so there is no way we will or can see Christ's glory. We will in the resurrection, but not until then. Faith, first and foremost, and as I have already said, is part of the free gift of Salvation and enables us to believe, not to see Christ's glory. All this is just meaningless romanticising of The Word of God.
"In other words, when you hear or read what God has done for sinners in the cross and the resurrection of Jesus, this appears to your heart as a great and glorious thing in and of itself even before you are sure you are saved by it."
Jesus Christ accomplished everything in terms of conquering death and sin on the cross not in it. There is no power in the cross, the cross was just an instrument of wicked cruelty, nothing else. All the power is in what happened on the cross and in His resurrection, thereby giving us a new life and a new identity.
"I get this idea from 2 Corinthians 4:4, where Paul says that what Satan hinders in the minds of unbelievers is the "seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God." For faith to be real there must be a supernatural "light" that God shines into the heart to show us that Christ is glorious and wonderful (2 Corinthians 4:6). This happens as a work of the Spirit of God through the preaching of the gospel."
Now he gets ideas, just how bad can it get, and when did The Lord start giving us ideas? Satan doesn't 'hinder' unbelievers, he completely blinds them so that they cannot believe - it's not possible for them to believe. For Faith to be real, a human being must, first of all, be called by The Father to His Son; John 6:44. This human being should now be discipled to Baptism by a proper pastor and Grace filled fellowship, being taught by those, with the gift of teaching, in that fellowship. Now when this disciple is Baptised he will be given all the faith he needs to start his walk with Christ and then grow in faith of his own.
"Second, faith is a warranted resting in this glorious gospel for our own salvation. I say "warranted resting" because there is an "unwarranted resting" - people who think they are saved who are not."
Here below is a copy of what Mr Piper says about the 'assurance of salvation' and I will break it down and disect it in order to reveal his blasphemous errors.
"The most agonizing problem about the assurance of salvation is not the problem of whether the objective facts of Christianity are true (God exists, Christ is God, Christ died for sinners, Christ rose from the dead, Christ saves forever all who believe, etc.). Those facts are the utterly crucial bedrock of our faith. But the really agonizing problem of assurance is whether I personally am saved by those facts. This boils down to whether I have saving faith."
If we are Born Again we are given faith and without that faith, we could not believe - period. We only know that Mr Piper's 'objective facts' are facts because we do believe and that that ability to believe is given to us in the first place. Ephesians 2:8 "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God." Faith and Grace are gifts of God, our faith has got nothing to do with it.
Now here is his first blasphemy: "This boils down to whether I have saving faith." What makes this statement a blasphemy? Well, he says he is a Christian and then he questions whether or not he has 'saving faith' Why does he ask this question? Easy, because he thinks his salvation is down to him and.....wait for it, 'his saving faith' He thinks his faith is saving him and that is the blasphemy of what he is saying. If we are Born Again we automatically have saving faith because it is given to us by The Godhead.
As I write I have received comments from his supporters who actually say Mr Piper isn't saying what he is saying!! How do they work that out? Do they have a problem with basic English, for I am not writing in the intellectual style? Ah yes maybe that's the problem - not enough gobble-de-gook for them, I am not taking them round in ever decreasing circles and still not coming to an understanding of The Truth. I am giving them The Truth, straight and undiluted but it's too simple for them!! Can you believe that? You'd better believe it 'cos that's the The Truth too.
"What makes this agonizing - for many in the history of the church and today - is that there are people who think they have saving faith but don't."
Here we go again, more agonising, how does he cope with all that pain? Oh, to be a martyr in the order of John Piper. Then we get a little demo of his Pharisee's credentials by telling us there are some who think they are saved but they are not? Very dangerous ground indeed. He then quotes a passage of Scripture that applies to him more than it does to those he is talking about!
"For example, in Matthew 7:21-23, Jesus says, (I've requoted this passage in a more accurate translation) "Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.""
Uncannily, he then asks some very appropriate and pertinent questions re-himself without knowing it:
"So the agonizing question for some is: do I really have saving faith? Is my faith real? Am I self-deceived?"
Yes, Mr Piper, you are most definitely deceived.
"Some well-intentioned people try to lessen the problem by making faith a mere decision to affirm certain truths, like the truth: Jesus is God, and he died for my sins. Some also try to assist assurance by denying that any kind of life-change is really necessary to demonstrate the reality of faith. So they find a way to make James 2:17 mean something other than what is seems to mean: "Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead." But these strategies to help assurance backfire.
If these people exist, for I do not know any of them, who has taught them? How have they come to baptism without lifestyle changes - without repentance? Confession of sins comes before baptism - admission of, and admitting our wretchedness comes before baptism - this is basic discipleship! These things don't come after baptism. If these people are baptised without a change of heart - a change that is wholly enabled by God the Father, not the person involved, then they are falsley baptised and it is the fault of the pastor/minister and no one else.
If we are proper converts, yes, we will continue to sin, but all the while acknowledging it is sin. The unconverted carnal mind would not do this, it cannot do it, the carnal mind does not recognise sin as sin and these falsley baptised people will just continue as before, because they're not called and sin is not sin to them. This is not rocket science, it's a basic Christian fundamental, a basic fundamental of conversion.
OK, I will move on to the next little gem in his diatribe:
All these so called ministers/pastors, like Piper, drop clangers sooner or later, I don't even have to speed read through their material first, for I know one will come sooner or later and here we have the first clanger in the misuse of James 2:17. Here he is using this verse to try and prove that someone is saved or not, which is a blasphemy - it's sheer nonsense. James 2:17 is talking about our faith, not Jesus' faith, which we are given when Born Again. Our faith earns us rewards stored in Heaven - nothing else, and only if it is accompanied with works, for our faith without works is dead. Nevertheless, we still have saving faith whether our faith has been exercised or not. Saving faith enables us to believe in the first place, and then on that foundation, we build our faith, but they are two types of faith - one is part of that free gift of salvation and the other one a faith that doesn't exist until we bring it to life with our works - that is, any kind of works that involves risk and trusting in The Lord for its success. Please note, 'works' does not mean worldly liberal reforming do-gooding.
"They deny some Scripture; and even the minimal faith they preserve can be agonized over and doubted by the tormented soul. They don't solve the problem, and they lose truth. And, perhaps worst of all, they sometimes give assurance to people who should not have it.Instead of minimizing the miraculous, deep, transforming nature of faith, and instead of denying that there are necessary life-changes that show the reality of faith, we should tackle the problem of assurance another way."
As I have already said, all this should be dealt with in discipling, and if not dealt with then the candidate is not ready for baptism. He then again refers to the 'assurance of salvation' as a problem. There is no problem to the assurance of salvation, for once Born Again we cannot become unborn again - it's impossible and The Lord would never allow it anyway.
The 'problems' that do arise are caused by those who are baptised by pastors who don't know what they are doing. These supposed converts are people whom The Father is plainly not calling but because people like Piper think conversion is a decision on the part of the convert they end up baptising loads of people who shouldn't be baptised. You know the ones, those who have 'accepted' Jesus Christ as their Saviour. This fallacious 'teaching' says we have a say in our conversion - a nonsense. If you think that, I suggest you read Acts where Saul's conversion is described, and you won't find him saying "Oh Lord I accept you as my Saviour" - Saul/Paul had no say in the matter at all, it was The Father's decision to call him and Jesus Christ actioned it - end of story.
Now for more 24 carrat gobble-de-gook and even bigger blasphemies! Stay with it folks 'cos this wretched individual's Biblical ignorance knows no bounds.
"We should begin by realizing that there is an objective warrant for resting in God's forgiveness of my sins, and there is a subjective warrant for God's forgiveness of my sins. The objective warrant is the finished work of Christ on the cross that "has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified" (Hebrews 10:14). The subjective warrant is our faith which is expressed in "being sanctified."
Warrants!!?? What warrants? The only warrant should be for this blasphemer's arrest and gagging order, so he can't preach any more rubbish, rubbish which puts Believers into the bondage and slavery of his non-gospel. A non-gospel of salvation by process and/or sanctification by progress. Hebrews 10:14 "By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all." We are sanctified "once for all" when we are made Holy and this happens....wait for it.... AT ONCE - instantaneously - immediately, there is no process to it at all. Once Born Again we are made Holy by the indwelling of The Holy Spirit and we cannot get any more Holy than that - it's impossible!! Notice too "By which will we are Sanctified" There is no mention at all here of any process to Sanctification. If an unbelieving spouse is pleased to dwell with their believing husband or wife they are automatically Sanctified, there's no process to it!!
And the gobble-de-gook keeps on coming, it's unbelievable how he conjures it up:
"Next we should realize that saving faith has two parts."Oh, should we, and does it really? Well would you believe it!? Thankfully no I wouldn't, because it's balderdash. Saving faith is saving faith and it only consists of one part to use his terminology. I will quote Ephesians 2:8 once more "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God." There we have it, Faith and Grace - one part of Faith and one part of Grace. There are no two parts of saving Faith, so now he is telling us porkies, whether he realises it or not.
Saving Faith is just that, Saving Faith, it forms part of our Salvation along with Grace. Without God given saving Faith we could not believe, it wouldn't be possible, we would remain carnally minded and that's it.
Here, very briefly, is the conversion process: The Father calls us and we say "Here am I", we are now disciples. We are then, through the Holy Spirit, convicted of our sinful nature and confess our sins, we admit for the first time that we need forgiveness made possible by Jesus Christ's death and resurrection. Only The Father through The Holy Spirit, working externally, with us can do this. This is not a voluntary act on our part, we have no option but to confess, because He has made us aware for the first time, of those sins. We should now feel our wretchedness, our wretched condition and need for Jesus Christ. We are now repentant in nature rather than rebellious in nature and are ready for baptism. Once baptised and prayed over by a brother, we are now Born Again from above with the indwelling of The Holy Spirit. We are now saved, sanctified and justified through Jesus Christ's sacrifice and resurrection, and don't let any blasphemer tell you otherwise.
"First, faith is a spiritual sight of glory (or beauty) in the Christ of the gospel."
Here he speaks as if there is another Christ or that there might another Christ other than the one who speaks in the Gospel accounts. Then he tells us another mistruth, for Paul clearly states that we see through a glass darkly where the Spiritual world is concerned, so there is no way we will or can see Christ's glory. We will in the resurrection, but not until then. Faith, first and foremost, and as I have already said, is part of the free gift of Salvation and enables us to believe, not to see Christ's glory. All this is just meaningless romanticising of The Word of God.
"In other words, when you hear or read what God has done for sinners in the cross and the resurrection of Jesus, this appears to your heart as a great and glorious thing in and of itself even before you are sure you are saved by it."
Jesus Christ accomplished everything in terms of conquering death and sin on the cross not in it. There is no power in the cross, the cross was just an instrument of wicked cruelty, nothing else. All the power is in what happened on the cross and in His resurrection, thereby giving us a new life and a new identity.
"I get this idea from 2 Corinthians 4:4, where Paul says that what Satan hinders in the minds of unbelievers is the "seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God." For faith to be real there must be a supernatural "light" that God shines into the heart to show us that Christ is glorious and wonderful (2 Corinthians 4:6). This happens as a work of the Spirit of God through the preaching of the gospel."
Now he gets ideas, just how bad can it get, and when did The Lord start giving us ideas? Satan doesn't 'hinder' unbelievers, he completely blinds them so that they cannot believe - it's not possible for them to believe. For Faith to be real, a human being must, first of all, be called by The Father to His Son; John 6:44. This human being should now be discipled to Baptism by a proper pastor and Grace filled fellowship, being taught by those, with the gift of teaching, in that fellowship. Now when this disciple is Baptised he will be given all the faith he needs to start his walk with Christ and then grow in faith of his own.
"Second, faith is a warranted resting in this glorious gospel for our own salvation. I say "warranted resting" because there is an "unwarranted resting" - people who think they are saved who are not."
As I have already said, Faith is a gift from God that enables us to believe. Once baptised and Born Again we enter His Sabbath rest. If people think they are saved, then they are saved, unless their fruits tell us otherwise.
n2sbp y2t y2f
posted by yes2truth aka Charles Crosby at 9:52 pm
34 comments
